Breaking VW Emissions Scandal -Mk I

[Dr Zoidberg]

I've seen conflicting reports on those 4000 cars.
If they are used ones, then that would make sense as it will be the affected vehicles that will be subject to a coming fix - no point letting them off the forecourts till they are done.
If they are new unregistered cars then they must surely be Euro 6 compliant, which they've previously assured us are fine. 

Curiouser and curiouser....

[brownfox]

So a rolling road test and read out before mod, and repeat after, any drop in bhp and it's back to dealer for replacing lost power,this sounds like a nightmare, if you bought the car for its power and fuel consumption as I did.

Is sounding like a Shark remap will be needed on all these cars after I guess.

[Breezy_Pete]

^ I can envisage trouble ahead for remappers.

 

Some less subtle companies are surely going to be pushing 'unfix VWs nobbling software' services in the near future. It's hard to imagine that isn't going to bring regulatory attention in the direction of those offering such a service; much as DPF removal operators are finding it hard to concurrently hold MOT licenses these days, I've heard.

[Rustynuts]

VW has no friends just now.

In your world perhaps. My world is slightly different isofar as my car is exactly the same as it was a few weeks ago, and is likely to remain that way (irrespective of what "fix" VW come up with). I for one have no issues in either keeping my current car or buying a newer VAG group car.

[jlwah]

This thread has all the makings of the fastest growing thread on Briskoda of all time.

 

The Golf R thread has reached 87 pages since 03 Mar 2014. This thread has reached 45 pages in 13 days!!

 

If only there was a way to harness this thread growth effect!!

[Hudson01]

What is confusing me a tad is if i do NOT want my car fixed..... can i be made too ? The detail we are getting at the moment is that either my emissions will be considered higher than we think they are now thus increasing my tax and then reducing my cars value or my car will have a lower BHP/torque when the ' fix ' makes my engine more friendly to the trees and the whales ? Either way i am not too happy about this and am very keen to know who i can take legal action against.

[ColinD]

@jlwah We could test it's performance versus, oh wait, poor taste.

 

Couple more law firm urls added to block list. I'm not encouraging anyone to click on it as the ads will track you for days, well till I block them here. As I discover them I'll add them. For some reason most of mine are server hosting and RS components, doing lots of Internet of Things development/reading.

 

Thought about an air quality sensor for your car before all this blew up... little red led for "bad" air, then cloud transmits loc and particulate reading to a greenpeace db

 

Until the fix is out, no-one knows the impact to your vehicle, or even if legal action is feasible... did you buy your car in california based on substance A values... etc

[Rustynuts]

What is confusing me a tad is if i do NOT want my car fixed..... can i be made too ? The detail we are getting at the moment is that either my emissions will be considered higher than we think they are now thus increasing my tax and then reducing my cars value or my car will have a lower BHP/torque when the ' fix ' makes my engine more friendly to the trees and the whales ? Either way i am not too happy about this and am very keen to know who i can take legal action against.

Who told you this? Someone who is guessing at what the software in your car may or may not be doing (like the editor of a motoring magazine on the radio today giving us the benefit of his own guess)?  Chances are your car being affected means that it has actually nothing wrong with it, but sign up with one of the blood sucking leeches just in case, right?

[skoda1982]

I bought my yeti 20l cr 3 weeks ago i might use the 30 day exchange and go for a 1.2 tsi petrol the dealer might not let me could find some sort of get out

[langers2k]

Can't guarantee this is genuine but there appears to be a VW TPI now.

 

 

 

Service campaign 23Q2 Transaction No.:

Service campaign for diesel exhaust gas EA189 Release date: 29-Sep-2015

Notes Repair instructions

Technical background

The vehicles are affected by the problem with diesel engines of the type EA 189. A technical
solution is currently not available. We are working intensively on a solution. As soon as it
is available, the repair instructions will be revised.

Remedy

A technical solution is currently not available. We are working intensively on a solution. As
soon as it is available, the repair instructions will be revised.

Customer notification

tbd

Warranty accounting instructions

tbd

Genuine parts

tbd

Parts supply

Not applicable.

Parts despatch control

Not applicable.

Questions and answers

* What is the problem on the affected vehicles?

The function and safety of the vehicle are not impaired.
The nitrogen oxide emissions levels do not meet the regulatory requirements for registering
the vehicle under the Euro 5 standard when the vehicle is driven under normal conditions.

* What is the cause of the fault?

Incorrect exhaust gas values are measured in test mode due to the engine control unit software.

* What effect does this situation have?

The operation of the vehicle is not impaired; the vehicle can be used as usual without restrictions.
The nitrogen oxide emissions levels do not meet the regulatory requirements for registering
the vehicle under the Euro 5 standard.

* Is the safety of the vehicle impaired?

No.

* Which vehicles are affected by the fault?

Only Volkswagen/ Commercial vehicles with the 3- or 4-cylinder diesel engine (EA 189 Euro 5)
manufactured from approx. 2008 onwards are affected.
If asked: Approximately 5,5 million vehicles are affected worldwide (some 1,5 million vehicles
in Germany).

* What does the designation EA 189 stand for?

Engines of the type 189 are 3- or 4-cylinder diesel engines, which have a capacity of 1.2 ltr,
1.6 ltr. or 2.0 ltr.

* How can I tell if my vehicle is affected?

The chassis number is the only certain way to identify the vehicles. A query form is available
on the national Volkswagen home page for the market in question. Assistance is also available
from customer support.

* What exactly needs to be repaired on the car?

The technical measures are currently being prepared, and this process is being given the utmost
priority. For the majority of vehicles, a software update will likely be sufficient.

* Will the work carried out on the vehicle have a negative effect on the performance or
fuel consumption?

The technical measures are currently being prepared, and this process is being given the utmost
priority. Our goal is to avoid any changes in the vehicle's performance.

* Is it safe to continue using the car until it can be inspected/repaired?

Yes, you can continue to drive the car without restrictions.

* I have a new car; is it okay to use it?

Yes, you can drive the car as usual without restrictions if it has been registered.

* Can I register a vehicle that has not been registered previously?

At the moment yes, however talks with the national licensing authorities are currently underway.

* Am I allowed to drive my car in low-emission zones (green disc) within cities in Germany?

Yes, our current understanding is that there are no restrictions in this regard.

* Do I have the right to compensation or to sell my car back?

No, the vehicle will be free of defects once the repair has been carried out.

* How did VW discover the error?

The American environmental agencies EPA and CARB found discrepancies in the emissions levels
of VW vehicles during road tests as opposed to when the vehicles were analysed on a test bed.

* Have there been cases reported by customers?

The media coverage has caused some uncertainty among customers.
Have there been any cases of personal injury?
No.

* Is there any risk for the car occupants?

No.

* Will the driver be aware that a fault exists?

No.

* Will this affect the residual value of the car?

The vehicle will be free of defects once the repair has been carried out. We therefore believe
that this will not affect the car's value.

* Will there be effects in terms of taxes?


* As we currently understand it, no. The situation is currently being clarified with the
licensing authorities.


* Is the engine still in current production, and if so, where?

Yes, the engine is still fitted in some models pursuant to the Euro 5 emissions standard mainly
in countries outside Europe.

* Will the customer be offered a mobility option while the vehicle is in the workshop?

The usual provisions for service campaigns apply.

* Can I have the repair carried out by an authorised Volkswagen dealer anywhere in the
world?

Yes.

* Is it necessary to make an appointment at the workshop?

Volkswagen will contact you as soon as the technical solution is available.

* Will the repair be carried out free of charge?

Yes, Volkswagen AG will bear the cost of the repair.

* How long will the repair take?

We currently estimate that the repair will take no more than 1-2 hours.

* What is Euro 5?

This refers to a European standard which specifies limits for exhaust gas emissions.

* Are petrol engines affected?

As we currently understand it, no.

* I have a used Euro 5 car; is it okay to sell it?

Yes, no restrictions apply.

[X]

Repair instructions Notes

Technical background

The vehicles are affected by the problem with diesel engines of the type EA 189. A technical
solution is currently not available. We are working intensively on a solution. As soon as it
is available, the repair instructions will be revised.

Check

Not applicable.

Control

Not applicable

Genuine parts

tbd

Work
Identification

tbd

[ColinD]

What strikes me about this, an old song just popped into my head. I think the first album I brought on vinyl /embarrassed mode on. In fact it was also the first loan I took out too. Friends mum shopping in Chester.... hah. Anyhow, point being if you remember this:

 

 

 

 

...you probably won't remember half the events mentioned. I go back to my original observation, the world's still turning, the engine still runs, we've all been had by the 'clean' diesel con. My wife and partner of 18years  has been professing this moment for 15+ years; she's into air quality professionally & yet drives a ford diesel as it was t he lowest co2 cost per month... Although the salesman didn't know what engine was in it. Tried to tell us a 2l was a 1.6 on the test... he ran away when I showed him the chassis stamps... everyone cheats to get something, the world's still turning, less we all jump up and down at once

 

Now lets expunge these ambulance chasers they will the wrack and ruin of all the marques and we'll be back to driving rovers...

[ColinD]

OK, so I run two pre-2009 1.9 PDs that are not affected by this scandal. But taking an interest, I decided to have a look at this thread from the beginning -- and gave up after looking through 7 or 8 pages.

 

Over 1300 posts and how many of these are actually relevant???? Pictures with "funny" captions etc? All we really need to know is very simple -- what cars and which owners are affected, exactly what engines are involved, the consequences for the car's future and resale, and most importantly, what VAG intend to do to put the situation right.  It certainly doesn't need a thread this length to put that information across -- it's one of the very major developments concerned with the company and I suspect folks will want to get the information they need without hours of reading through all of this.

 

Mike

 

Mike,

 

no one knows. The main news section has a summary and anything pertinent in the news or from VAG should be added in there.  This topic will spin and spin until, anyone dipping in will find it very hard to follow. Conversely as I was out, I began from 7 or 8, can't recall my self now. I personally don't like uber long threads... but chop it the 3rd reich card comes out against us, so on it goes

[ColinD]

I've seen conflicting reports on those 4000 cars.

If they are used ones, then that would make sense as it will be the affected vehicles that will be subject to a coming fix - no point letting them off the forecourts till they are done.

If they are new unregistered cars then they must surely be Euro 6 compliant, which they've previously assured us are fine. 

Curiouser and curiouser....

 

john has replied on twitter to say euro5... of course it's a who knows still...

 

https://twitter.com/JohnMoylanBBC/status/649649714351226880

[JungleJames]

Not cheating necessarily but just the indoor test is non representative of deal driving.  Let us have more comparisons across diesel, petrols, hybrids in real conditions.  

Do a fair comparison between all 3 in fuel useage. That'll see hybrids being found out for what they are.

[ColinD]

Do a fair comparison between all 3 in fuel useage. That'll see hybrids being found out for what they are.

 

We borrowed a 3008 hybrid and despite trying we got nowhere near the stated figures. But that's different from the emissions test But if one set of numbers don't match... well 2+2 =5 right

[g0bgb]

it would appear theI VIN checker is useless put in the VIN of my Octy 2012 1.6 tdi Greenline , and it says no recall, what bull**** we all know its got the EA189 engine , I think no one at VAG group has a clue as to what to do

If after recall work I lose any  engine perforance or Mpg  I will sue

Edited 1 October, 2015 by g0bgb

[JohnMcL7]

@jlwah We could test it's performance versus, oh wait, poor taste.

 

Couple more law firm urls added to block list. I'm not encouraging anyone to click on it as the ads will track you for days, well till I block them here. As I discover them I'll add them. For some reason most of mine are server hosting and RS components, doing lots of Internet of Things development/reading.

 

Thought about an air quality sensor for your car before all this blew up... little red led for "bad" air, then cloud transmits loc and particulate reading to a greenpeace db

 

Until the fix is out, no-one knows the impact to your vehicle, or even if legal action is feasible... did you buy your car in california based on substance A values... etc

 

I've been browsing quite a lot of sites about the VW issue (mainly to refute rubbish I'm seeing post elsewhere) so that could be the reason for the lawyer ad, I'll post the urls if I see any others.

 

everyone cheats to get something, the world's still turning, less we all jump up and down at once 

 

Agreed, I was surprised to see someone posting that they'd cancelled their VW order because they were disgusted by VW's behaviour and were going to order a Toyota Prius instead.  Which was quite a surprising demonstration of how short people's memories are given it wasn't long ago Toyota had a huge safety recall due to several people being killed as a result of their defect.  I realise that was negligence rather than deliberate but still not exactly a positive step for a brand.

 

John

[ColinD]

s'ok, there's a new story in town: TV cheating software now, lets turn them all off now... http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-34412501

 

http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2015/oct/01/samsung-tvs-appear-more-energy-efficient-in-tests-than-in-real-life

 

Somehow I don't think this will get the TV coverage it should.

[@Lee]

What strikes me about this, an old song just popped into my head. I think the first album I brought on vinyl /embarrassed mode on. In fact it was also the first loan I took out too. Friends mum shopping in Chester.... hah. Anyhow, point being if you remember this:

 

 

 

 

...you probably won't remember half the events mentioned. I go back to my original observation, the world's still turning, the engine still runs, we've all been had by the 'clean' diesel con. My wife and partner of 18years  has been professing this moment for 15+ years; she's into air quality professionally & yet drives a ford diesel as it was t he lowest co2 cost per month... Although the salesman didn't know what engine was in it. Tried to tell us a 2l was a 1.6 on the test... he ran away when I showed him the chassis stamps... everyone cheats to get something, the world's still turning, less we all jump up and down at once

 

Now lets expunge these ambulance chasers they will the wrack and ruin of all the marques and we'll be back to driving rovers...

Unbelievebly, Margaret Thatcher was a keen advocate of 'lean burn' tech way back in the 80's rather than the Catalytic Converter. Not diesel I know but she had the right idea.

 

What would she know, being a politician (with a degree in Chemistry) ?

 

http://www.topgear.com/car-news/jeremy-clarkson/jeremy-clarkson-hybrids

 

Quite like that track BTW, still turn it up in the car when it comes on R2

[@Lee]

what makes me laugh about all this malarkey is that it broke from the US of A; a country that point blankly refused to sign up to the Kyoto Agreement for years and only did (eventually IIRC) with stiff opposition from both houses and is still one of the worlds biggest polluters

 

Anyone rollin' coal or drive an F150,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,?

 

Pot/ kettle,,,,,

[Jevpls]

We borrowed a 3008 hybrid and despite trying we got nowhere near the stated figures. But that's different from the emissions test But if one set of numbers don't match... well 2+2 =5 right

 

Because that's hybrid and probably it's tested in a mode when it mostly runs on electrictiy. When it's gets to petrol consumption then it's not much better than a petrol car. When you drive like in normal life then it should be more or less petrol one. The same with emissions. Slow driving in a parking lot - nothing. Normal driving - like as petrol.

[ColinD]

Yep, in the 70's we led the world on wave energy research, some nitwit in public office got the sums wrong and nuclear was deemed cheaper... so all was lost but for a few plugging away as they could, so now we have lost 40 years of research investment in something that never goes away and is entirely predictable! Every dock, harbour in the land could be a clean(ish) power station.  We have really been washed out to sea with the chinese nuclear plants... thus reinforcing my point, VW didn't do anything new here...

[moley]

What is confusing me a tad is if i do NOT want my car fixed..... can i be made too ? The detail we are getting at the moment is that either my emissions will be considered higher than we think they are now thus increasing my tax and then reducing my cars value or my car will have a lower BHP/torque when the ' fix ' makes my engine more friendly to the trees and the whales ? Either way i am not too happy about this and am very keen to know who i can take legal action against.

Do you know if your car is on the 'affected' list?

[logiclee]

 

The Worldcarfans site, used it for years and general found well informed, includes EPA comment, just popped this up on their site ..........

 

 

http://www.worldcarfans.com/115093099578/vw-working-on-two-solutions-to-fix-cars-powered-by

Could reduce fuel economy and performance

Industry experts are saying Volkswagen's diesel fix could require two distinct solutions, depending on the car’s pollution control system.   Yesterday we heard VW saying a diesel fix is in the works for almost 11 million cars equipped with the Euro 5-compliant EA189 engine and all of them will have to go through a "service procedure." Now we get to find out more about what that actually means and it seems it's more than just a software update as industry experts and U.S. regulators are saying hardware changes will be required as well for some of the engines.  There will be two solutions and choosing between one and the other will be done based on the vehicle's pollution control system. 

 

According to EPA, fixing the cars from the 2009-2014 model years will require more time because these have devices known as "lean NOx traps" which were created to reduce nitrogen oxides in engine exhaust. Back in 2012, Volkswagen started offering the same 2.0 TDI engine with a more complex emissions control system known as Selective Catalytic Reduction which injects a liquid urea solution in the exhaust to diminish nitrogen oxides.

 

The software implemented in these two types of emissions control systems will have to be revised and in some cases a hardware change will also be necessary. According to some analysts, these modifications could have a negative impact on the car's performances and could also increase fuel consumption

 

 

 

Wont need SCR to meet Euro 5 though.

[eagerv]

As someone who owns both a hybrid and a diesel, we find that we can get fairly close to the combined official MPG on both cars,

but a little closer with the diesel.

 

The main advantage of the Hybrid engine is that it is an Atkinson cycle engine which runs at a more efficient speed and the battery is used at slow speeds and as a boost like a Turbo charger.

 

I have no reason to disbelieve the CO2 figures of either car, whatever about the NOx of the diesel.