1.5 SEL first gear issue.

[StEdmund]

In the Autotrader video above, the reviewer appeared to get 34.1mpg overall; mine, with mixed driving, is showing 42.4mpg - on a recent dual carriageway/motorway trip my Karoq achieved 49.2mpg (car computer, not brim to brim).

 

I wonder if the reviewer had a particularly heavy right foot ....... or had the car had been tweaked to run richer?

[Ootohere]

^^^ KW67 CSX in the video First registered December 2017 shows as 125 g/km on the DVLA vehicle check. 

 & Currently on SORN.

Revenue weight 1,918kg

 

**The panel at the end of the Vid shows a SE L manual & 124 g/km.**

 

Most i see are 122 or 124 g/km.    

  What C02 g/km are cars having issues?

 

EDIT

, i see an Edition on 19" wheels is 125 g/km

 

 

 

Edited 11 January, 2019 by Skoffski

[silver1011]

1 hour ago, StEdmund said:

In the Autotrader video above, the reviewer appeared to get 34.1mpg overall; mine, with mixed driving, is showing 42.4mpg - on a recent dual carriageway/motorway trip my Karoq achieved 49.2mpg (car computer, not brim to brim).

 

I wonder if the reviewer had a particularly heavy right foot ....... or had the car had been tweaked to run richer?

 

They don't pay for their own fuel, nor do they own the car. That's worth at least 10mpg.

[shyVRS245]

1 hour ago, Skoffski said:

^^^ KW67 CSX in the video First registered December 2017 shows as 125 g/km on the DVLA vehicle check. 

 & Currently on SORN.

Revenue weight 1,918kg

 

**The panel at the end of the Vid shows a SE L manual & 124 g/km.**

 

Most i see are 122 or 124 g/km.    

  What C02 g/km are cars having issues?

 

EDIT

, i see an Edition on 19" wheels is 125 g/km

 

 

 

Our manual 1.5Tsi manual SEL registered 26/01/2018 has 125gm/co2 on the registration document if that helps.

[rayx]

19 hours ago, Abu said:

This is my first post on this forum also. I am from Romania and drive a Golf 1.5 Tsi 150bhp manual and took delivery of it in October 2018.

First, I would like to say I really enjoyed reading this forum because some comments make me laugh, making fun out of this situation is sometimes the best strategy to cope with it. I can also imagine the situation described just a few post above and cannot stop laughing

 

Now related to our issue: my car also kangaroos but on a lesser scale and only when cold (driving off my yard first thing in the morning). However, I found a solution which I would like you to test for yourself, in case it makes any difference: before you drive off for the first time, give it a constant rev for about 10-20 seconds - not too low and not too high. I keep mine at ~1500rpm. During this time, the rev indicator (and enginer as well) jump up and down all over the place, but I keep my foot in the same position without moving it a bit. If you keep it steady you will notice that the revs slowly stabilize. When you see this you are ready to go and normally no kangarooing should occur anymore.

 

Again, I realize many of you here experience this with also when the engine has warmed up, but there are others like me who only go through this while cold. This method might work.

Related to the cause of the issue, I also believe it has something to do with the clutch sensor - if you gently release the clutch without touching the accelerator pedal there is no kangarooing taking place. I tried this many times and could not make it do it. As soon as the clutch is involved, the behaviour starts manifesting again.

 

I guess it has to do something with Camshaft Adjustment of both shafts (intake and exhaust), which is used for internal EGR too As petrol direct injection engine it surely produces a lot of NOx, to fight it, manufacturer use internal EGR in way of valves overlap.

 

Therefore they can not come fast with any software update as it has to comply to the WLTP emission homologation it got, so VAG=Skoda and other brands now just keep calm all with the promise of any future software update in second quarter of 2019 in their Technical Product Information Nr. 2050744/6 ...

 

 

see, how complicated is setting up the timing on this 1.5TSI  EA211 EVO engine

 

 

 

Edited 12 January, 2019 by rayx

[silver1011]

1 hour ago, rayx said:

Therefore they can not come fast with any software update as it has to comply to the WLTP emission homologation it got, so VAG=Skoda and other brands now just keep calm all with the promise of any future software update in second quarter of 2019 in their Technical Product Information Nr. 2050744/6 ...

 

Would be good to get a copy of that TPI.

[Abu]

Interesting material!

I also don't believe in an easy way out as a software update would have been provided already a long time ago if it was that simple.

[shyVRS245]

2 minutes ago, Abu said:

Interesting material!

I also don't believe in an easy way out as a software update would have been provided already a long time ago if it was that simple.

We have been living with this issue for 50 weeks now perhaps Skoda UK will issue Long Suffering Medals in due course.

[agedbriar]

If it was what @rayx suggests, the car would kangaroo in reverse as well, as the transmission ratio and engine load are similar to first gear.

But people say it doesn't kangaroo in reverse.

 

Edited 12 January, 2019 by agedbriar

[xman]

 Warning! - Another Xman hypothesis coming up!

 

6 hours ago, rayx said:

 

I guess it has to do something with Camshaft Adjustment of both shafts (intake and exhaust), which is used for internal EGR too  As petrol direct injection engine it surely produces a lot of NOx, to fight it, manufacturer use internal EGR in way of valves overlap.

 

Been thinking about this comment and how, if anything, this engine differs from the 1.4tsi ACT which also has the same inlet/exhaust camshaft adjustment and in head EGR.

 

Found some possible clues here

 

https://www.greencarcongress.com/2016/04/20160428-tsievo.html

 

"In contrast to the EA211, the intake camshaft is adjusted using a high-speed hydraulic camshaft actuator with a central control valve. The adjustment speed of up to 300° of crank angle (CA) per second enhances the dynamics of the cylinder-fill control." (so this might be an altered design to the 1.4tsi)

 

" a map-controlled, fully variable oil pump"  (1.4 tsi uses a simple 2 step pressure control)

 

" a switch to low-viscosity 0W20"

 

Brings back memories of nightmare university courses on closed loop stability, imaginary maths, laplace transforms, poles, and all that complex stuff I wasn't very good at. And later finding in the real world that variable manufacturing stiction, hysteresis, slop etc make some designs a nightmare which can never work right.

 

The fully variable oil pump (as used in the 1.0tsi) uses a control closed loop, the camshaft adjustment uses another control closed loop using independently modulated oil pressure to effect cam adjustment. Interesting that they claim its high speed adjustment.

 

VW claim the problem goes away above 70 deg C coolant temperature, so maybe oil pressure/flow related.

 

Might be this is a control loop interaction or stability problem which is affected by manufacturing tolerances with some engines not affected.

 

Won't be easy to fix without a hardware and software rethink.

 

End of Xman's lengthy hypothesis #3

 

To recap...

#1 camshaft adjustment - Miller cycle was debunked because its actually configured as Otto cycle but is related to #3

#2 throttle valve is now located before the intercooler (1.4tsi was after), a strange place to put it so still a possibility.

 

Apologies to all who think what a load of Xman boIIox again .....

[Breezy_Pete]

Worth trying to figure it out fella. Would be wayyy cool to get it right ahead of official info.

[Xtra2]

6 hours ago, agedbriar said:

If it was what @rayx suggests, the car would kangaroo in reverse as well, as the transmission ratio and engine load are similar to first gear.

But people say it doesn't kangaroo in reverse.

 

I can definitely say our Kangaroo didn't jump at all going backwards - as I have to reverse out of the parking space every morning outside of our house.  

Edited 12 January, 2019 by Xtra2

[Breezy_Pete]

I doubt the WLTP test cycle includes any reversing, so in principle at least, the mapping could differ so as to be more driveable in reverse; without compliance problems.

[agedbriar]

21 minutes ago, Wino said:

I doubt the WLTP test cycle includes any reversing, so in principle at least, the mapping could differ so as to be more driveable in reverse; without compliance problems.

Exactly! A mapping thing, not a mechanical design flaw.

Easier to fix, if true. In spite of WLTP.

Hopefully... 

[Ootohere]

Seems then that first off VW Group thought lets pretend there are no issues, then after having to accept publicly there is then just hang fire and do not bother doing jack sh!t.

A few people will moan, the odd motoring journalist will be aware but no Publisher or Editor that wants your advertising is going to run any stories on it.

[Geordie66]

Hi

 

I've been watching this thread with great interest for a few weeks being an owner of a  karoq 1.5 SEL with the skippy characteristic!

 

I bought mine as new at the end of October last year. I had 2 test drives of the same model which didn't exhibit the skippy syndrome. Unfortunately that was back in January and February last year and nearly bought then but I couldn't be hassled with the 3 month waiting list so I put it on hold.

 

I am experiencing the same problems that are well described here and tried switching to Eco as suggested and for me, it does improve things quite a bit. I'd be interested to know if anyone else has tried this.

 

At this point I'm unsure whether to attempt to reject it or wait for the so called fix in Q2? To those have successfully rejected theirs, how did you manage to get the dealer to accept this problem as a fault rather than a characteristic?

 

Cheers
Geordie

[shyVRS245]

53 minutes ago, Wino said:

I doubt the WLTP test cycle includes any reversing, so in principle at least, the mapping could differ so as to be more driveable in reverse; without compliance problems.

Do you think I can get upto 70mph on the motorway in REVERSE.

[Breezy_Pete]

Do you think I CARE?

[xman]

Meanwhile, back in Wolfsburg forest.....

[shyVRS245]

9 minutes ago, Wino said:

Do you think I CARE?

I managed it on the Silverstone Grands Prix circuit in a BMW as I spun it coming out of Maggots onto the Hangar Straight but it wasn't intentional. The question wasn't aimed at you it was for general discussion.

[fidelio]

VW and motor manufacturers in general never come out to admit a fault or "characteristic" of one of their engines. In the best case scenario they will come back with a fix that will apply every time someone complains or if its hardware they will replace under warranty.

There is history with VW and their engines stalling in diesel-polos a few years ago, when driving in first gear under 2000 revs. They claimed back then, for a long time, that it was purely due to personal driving fault and nothing to do with the engine. 

Not to mention the early 1.4 TSIs that very oftenly had an engine failure (pistons). Mechanical + software issue which they covered under extended warranty if you were lucky. 

Recalls only refer to safety issues unfortunately.    

[JeremyGi]

Tried 97 octane, tried turning off auto stop, auto brake, turn off air con, tried econ mode, tried sport mode, no real improvement the best improvement comes when the sun shines and it warms up. 

 

[AMC150]

1 hour ago, Geordie66 said:

Hi

 

I've been watching this thread with great interest for a few weeks being an owner of a  karoq 1.5 SEL with the skippy characteristic!

 

I bought mine as new at the end of October last year. I had 2 test drives of the same model which didn't exhibit the skippy syndrome. Unfortunately that was back in January and February last year and nearly bought then but I couldn't be hassled with the 3 month waiting list so I put it on hold.

 

I am experiencing the same problems that are well described here and tried switching to Eco as suggested and for me, it does improve things quite a bit. I'd be interested to know if anyone else has tried this.

 

At this point I'm unsure whether to attempt to reject it or wait for the so called fix in Q2? To those have successfully rejected theirs, how did you manage to get the dealer to accept this problem as a fault rather than a characteristic?

 

Cheers
Geordie

I was advised by my service manager to run in ECO mode using the higher octane fuel which I did.

Made no difference whatsoever.

Back now running on the cheap stuff in NORMAL mode and eagerly awaiting the Q2 fix  (if it ever appears)

[xman]

For those who are currently unhappy with their car's "characteristic", please consider this.

 

Q2 is anytime from April 1 till  June 30. If VAG release an update in that timeframe it may take another month or so for dealers to get round to implement it. It may fix it - in which case, happy days - or maybe not. Or it may introduce another undesirable "characteristic".  The last update fixed the crazy over revving on lifting clutch and in its place introduced the "kangaroo hopper" and the "I think I'm going to die pause".

 

By then most people will be beyond hope of rejection because of time passed.

 

Just saying, that it would be wise, at least to put something down in writing that legally "stops the clock" on rejection and have it acknowledged, in writing, by the dealer and Skoda UK.

 

[rayx]

15 hours ago, Wino said:

Worth trying to figure it out fella. Would be wayyy cool to get it right ahead of official info.

 

Well, if any of the owners of this 1.5 TSI engine code DADA would have VCDS diagnostics and could make a log of Camshaft Adjustment (Bank 1 Intake), specific and actual values and the same for Camshaft Adjustment (Bank 2 Exhaust) after cold start and set off on the 1st, there might be something obvious

Edited 13 January, 2019 by rayx