Turbo Swap Choices for EA211 1.2 TSI

[Oneshotlpm]

I'd personally stay away from the 1.4 turbo and go with a hybrid of the 1.2. 

 

Everyone has a preference. 

 

 

[FabiaGonzales]

17 hours ago, stevob21 said:

@FabiaGonzales What would be your final verdict on this whole process? I've read pretty much all the thread.

Is it worth getting a large 1.4 Turbo (there seems to be issues mapping them) or should you just stick with a Stage 1 map.

If you want more power, is the only real option to go hybrid turbo or the smaller 1.4 turbo and switch some parts?.

 

How much was your hybrid setup all in?

My hybrid setup was £1950 in total.

 

From personal experience with all the hassle that the 1.4 turbo gave me, i'd say to just save up and go for the hybrid which will give you 180bhp and 206ftlb/280nm on a completely stock car. If you want more still then you can change out rods and hpfp and exhaust etc to give you maybe 220-230bhp and 320+nm torque. The rods limit the torque, and the exhaust and hpfp limit the power.

 

The 1.4 turbo unfortunately presented a lot of issues when attempting to map it in. The wastegate behaves differently, the spool characteristics are different, and ultimately it came down to it only being able to safely push 1.3-1.2 bar boost till redline without it surging. 1.2-1.3bar gives stage 1 torque, but it's able to hold it to redline rather than dropping off, you'll get around 160bhp and 230nm ish from that.

 

Trying to push more boost would result in it surging to 1.6-1.7 bar and upwards, it'd either hit boost cut, or fuelling couldn't keep up and it'd cut fuel to prevent being damagingly lean. Either way a stock 1.4 turbo isn't built for that kind of boost so 1.2-1.3 bar boost is the most you'd safely want to push with it, the hybrid is built for 1.7 bar boost so it's perfectly happy running 1.5 bar all day long.

 

If you're already stage 1 then it's not worth going to the 1.4 turbo in my opinion, you only gain a bit of top end, which is nice but for the cost of having it installed and mapped again, not really worth.

 

The hybrid? Yeah, definitely worth it, night and day difference. With a more accurate app, from rolling in 2nd gear, managed a 30-60mph in just 3.42 seconds. The 1.4 turbo barely scraped 4 seconds flat.

 

I'd recommend getting at least a sports cat exhaust done (sports or decat will provide same gains, may aswell go for the legal option lol) before the hybrid though, you'll get potentially around 190bhp with that (hpfp for 205-210, then rods to allow increasing torque past 280nm to 320+nm and get perhaps 220-230bhp)

 

I'd highly suggest a brake upgrade though, slowing down from 140mph is not something to be taken likely 😶

[steevs]

On 02/03/2021 at 12:37, FabiaGonzales said:

My hybrid setup was £1950 in total.

 

From personal experience with all the hassle that the 1.4 turbo gave me, i'd say to just save up and go for the hybrid which will give you 180bhp and 206ftlb/280nm on a completely stock car. If you want more still then you can change out rods and hpfp and exhaust etc to give you maybe 220-230bhp and 320+nm torque. The rods limit the torque, and the exhaust and hpfp limit the power.

 

The 1.4 turbo unfortunately presented a lot of issues when attempting to map it in. The wastegate behaves differently, the spool characteristics are different, and ultimately it came down to it only being able to safely push 1.3-1.2 bar boost till redline without it surging. 1.2-1.3bar gives stage 1 torque, but it's able to hold it to redline rather than dropping off, you'll get around 160bhp and 230nm ish from that.

 

Trying to push more boost would result in it surging to 1.6-1.7 bar and upwards, it'd either hit boost cut, or fuelling couldn't keep up and it'd cut fuel to prevent being damagingly lean. Either way a stock 1.4 turbo isn't built for that kind of boost so 1.2-1.3 bar boost is the most you'd safely want to push with it, the hybrid is built for 1.7 bar boost so it's perfectly happy running 1.5 bar all day long.

 

If you're already stage 1 then it's not worth going to the 1.4 turbo in my opinion, you only gain a bit of top end, which is nice but for the cost of having it installed and mapped again, not really worth.

 

The hybrid? Yeah, definitely worth it, night and day difference. With a more accurate app, from rolling in 2nd gear, managed a 30-60mph in just 3.42 seconds. The 1.4 turbo barely scraped 4 seconds flat.

 

I'd recommend getting at least a sports cat exhaust done (sports or decat will provide same gains, may aswell go for the legal option lol) before the hybrid though, you'll get potentially around 190bhp with that (hpfp for 205-210, then rods to allow increasing torque past 280nm to 320+nm and get perhaps 220-230bhp)

 

I'd highly suggest a brake upgrade though, slowing down from 140mph is not something to be taken likely 😶

 

Thanks for this, I really appreciate the update got a few more questions.

 

Is there any info on when the turbo kit will be available for purchase?

 

Is reliability good all around, any weirdness when idle or cold starts?

 

Do you have an intake upgrade, if so does it make noticeably nicer noises?

 

Finally, if possible could you do a 0-62 run or a quick video (I completely understand if you aren't comfortable doing this)

 

 

I ask all these questions as I plan to go for this kit a few months down the line, just got my self insured with a known good insurer for modified cars in preparation for this.

 

[FabiaGonzales]

2 hours ago, stevob21 said:

 

Thanks for this, I really appreciate the update got a few more questions.

 

Is there any info on when the turbo kit will be available for purchase?

 

Is reliability good all around, any weirdness when idle or cold starts?

 

Do you have an intake upgrade, if so does it make noticeably nicer noises?

 

Finally, if possible could you do a 0-62 run or a quick video (I completely understand if you aren't comfortable doing this)

 

 

I ask all these questions as I plan to go for this kit a few months down the line, just got my self insured with a known good insurer for modified cars in preparation for this.

 

To be honest, I don't wanna give the clutch a beating, and with the state of the roads right now (salty and damp and muddy round here) it struggles for grip even in 2nd gear so it's hard to get anything decent.

 

An intake upgrade does make the factory blow off sound much nicer. Don't bother with the forge blow off thing i think it sounds cheap and awful. Get the MST turbo elbow (MST-VW-MK708) and the MST intake kit (MST-VW-MK706L)

 

Together they replace all the pipework from the filter to the turbo. There's no gains to be had by doing anything with the forge dump valve rubbish.

 

There's no issue at all with cold starts or anything. Starts up and idles just like standard, you don't notice any difference until you boot it and it throws you back lol.

[mk6chris]

Hello. My name is Chris. I live in the United States. I drive a ea211 1.4T Jetta. 

 

I read a couple of pages of this thread. Can anyone fill me in?

 

I noticed that there was a section saying what turbos fit or not. 

 

Will this apply to my ea211 1.4T?  I did some research a year ago and I only found a hybrid turbo that 'fit'. But that was not confirmed. I couldn't contact the company. "RGTM" or something. 

 

Are any of you running ethanol? 

[Oneshotlpm]

3 hours ago, mk6chris said:

Hello. My name is Chris. I live in the United States. I drive a ea211 1.4T Jetta. 

 

I read a couple of pages of this thread. Can anyone fill me in?

 

I noticed that there was a section saying what turbos fit or not. 

 

Will this apply to my ea211 1.4T?  I did some research a year ago and I only found a hybrid turbo that 'fit'. But that was not confirmed. I couldn't contact the company. "RGTM" or something. 

 

Are any of you running ethanol? 

 

Hi not sure on whats available in the states but in Europe you can get the RTMG hybrid Ea211 rs turbo which is built for the 1.4. 

 

Its not a set up we can use on the 1.2 because the tunner would have to limit the power and that seems pointless for the money it costs around 1200 euros just for the turbo alone. 

 

I've been in contact with RTMG for a while who are great I run their cold air intake and bov, brilliant kit. 

 

https://r-tmg.co.uk/product/rtmg-hybrid-turbocharger-ea211rs-1-4tsi

 

Hope this helps 👍

 

 

[TheFozzy]

On 19/02/2021 at 14:42, cm9876 said:

Ive heard this as well. But my clio 182 had no cat but I only found out come MOT time. There was never any smell just obnoxiously loud as it had a custom titanium exhaust.

 

There is a decat on AliExpress for around £100 not sure what the quality is like though. 

Theres a reason the ali express downpipes are cheap, the welds are usually terrible using a process called "cold welding"  Its not really cold, its just a weld that doesn't properly penetrate the metal leaving a weak joint prone to failure.

[cm9876]

On 29/03/2021 at 03:22, TheFozzy said:

Theres a reason the ali express downpipes are cheap, the welds are usually terrible using a process called "cold welding"  Its not really cold, its just a weld that doesn't properly penetrate the metal leaving a weak joint prone to failure.

I ordered it at the end of February. I've seen mixed reviews since. If it ever comes I'll report back if it's any good

[cm9876]

I found this in a pdf about the ea211 engine. 

It seems like the 1.4 120hp engines do have a slightly larger turbo than the 1.2. I thought they were the same

[Monkey_Dan]

6 minutes ago, cm9876 said:

I found this in a pdf about the ea211 engine. 

It seems like the 1.4 120hp engines do have a slightly larger turbo than the 1.2. I thought they were the same

 

RTMG use the smaller 1.4 turbo for their hybrid. I've still got my original 1.2 turbo. I'd be interested in having it upgraded if the cost is reasonable. JBS don't do a stand alone turbo exchange (their package includes fitting and a map) and I don't have the turbo RTMG use for theirs. So I'm a bit in no man's land.

Although I still have boost fluctuation at full throttle max boost from 4k onwards the effect of how that feels has massively been reduced by fitting lighter wheels. I wasn't sure if there would be any effect and had thought it might have made it worse as the heavier spinning wheels dampening the effect of the corresponding power fluctuations with the inertia. The light wheels have also transformed the car for the better in general. I didn't think my previous wheels were especially heavy but definitely recommend going lightweight 

[TheFozzy]

On 31/03/2021 at 17:26, cm9876 said:

I ordered it at the end of February. I've seen mixed reviews since. If it ever comes I'll report back if it's any good

It was probably stuck behind ever given 

[cm9876]

It's arrived. It doesn't look to bad. Getting the old one out is a pain. The repair manual says to drop the subframe. I'm going to cut it in half tomorrow. I should be able to get it out in two pieces

On 02/04/2021 at 11:39, TheFozzy said:

It was probably stuck behind ever given 

 

[Monkey_Dan]

Just collected my car from Fast Road Conversions in Ashford. They made and fitted a 2.5 inch turbo-back system with sports cat. I'd done the turbo swap to the larger 1.4 turbo and had it mapped to 177Bhp and 336Nm. Leon at Road Rage Performance that did the map told me the stock cat was holding it back at higher revs. The dyno graph showed this with peak power coming early and then dropping off. On the road it was pretty savage but drove nicely. They only issue was boost fluctuations from just under 4k rpm under full throttle and boost. The fluctuation was boost dropping and then building back up.

 

My new exhaust seems to have fixed this issue entirely, I'm very happy with it.

[cm9876]

How much was the turbo back.

I've just fitted the AliExpress down pipe.

It doesn't fit properly. The pipe doesn't sit in the mounts so is just hanging. It sounds like it's blowing where it goes into the resonator. The pipe doesn't seem to be the right size

 

 

[Monkey_Dan]

57 minutes ago, cm9876 said:

How much was the turbo back.

I've just fitted the AliExpress down pipe.

It doesn't fit properly. The pipe doesn't sit in the mounts so is just hanging. It sounds like it's blowing where it goes into the resonator. The pipe doesn't seem to be the right size

 

 

It was expensive, 1200 + vat but I'm so happy with it 

[FabiaGonzales]

On 09/04/2021 at 13:02, Monkey_Dan said:

Just collected my car from Fast Road Conversions in Ashford. They made and fitted a 2.5 inch turbo-back system with sports cat. I'd done the turbo swap to the larger 1.4 turbo and had it mapped to 177Bhp and 336Nm. Leon at Road Rage Performance that did the map told me the stock cat was holding it back at higher revs. The dyno graph showed this with peak power coming early and then dropping off. On the road it was pretty savage but drove nicely. They only issue was boost fluctuations from just under 4k rpm under full throttle and boost. The fluctuation was boost dropping and then building back up.

 

My new exhaust seems to have fixed this issue entirely, I'm very happy with it.

Ooh, any hints of how the sport-cat will handle an MOT?

 

I'd love to get a better exhaust on mine, i've a feeling the back section is a restriction too, not just the cat(s), if it's a dusty road and i plant it, the stock exhaust kicks up massive clouds of dust 😂 might see if i can get the map upped a little once it's got an exhaust on it too, ive done about 6-7k on the hybrid so far and it's solid as a rock.

[Monkey_Dan]

1 hour ago, FabiaGonzales said:

Ooh, any hints of how the sport-cat will handle an MOT?

 

I'd love to get a better exhaust on mine, i've a feeling the back section is a restriction too, not just the cat(s), if it's a dusty road and i plant it, the stock exhaust kicks up massive clouds of dust 😂 might see if i can get the map upped a little once it's got an exhaust on it too, ive done about 6-7k on the hybrid so far and it's solid as a rock.

 

Should be fine as long as it's warm.

 

Got a dyno run booked at the end of the month, will post the results 

[Monkey_Dan]

Anyone heard anything about the turbo from a 1.5tsi fitting on to the 1.2 tsi engine?

Dude was messaging me on Insta this morning said he had the turbo from 155hp 2019 Leon FR.

He hasn't gotten back to me on a few questions but I thought it had a different actuator. 

 

Also been speaking to another JBS hybrid owner that got over 200bhp on his Yeti with intake and exhaust mods.

 

My dyno run is booked for 11th

[Oneshotlpm]

This is me lol

 

The yeti went to jbs for a few days, I've used rich and jbs before. I went for the hybrid option rather than going with a second hand 1.4 set up. 

 

Its an absolute night and day difference and shows you want you can achieve with these engines. I probably could of had slightly more power if chasing numbers but I went for a sports cat to stay on the legal side. 

 

I paid £2100 and for me it's worth every penny. I have an evo 5 for my fun weekend car, I wanted more power for the yeti as a daily and it's absolutely rapid definitely suprised how quick it hits 140! 😂

 

If you own an EA211 I'd give up chasing the 1.4 idea and just go with the hybrid option. Best way to hit over 200 in my opinion! 

 

Would highly recommend JBS 

Edited 1 May, 2021 by Oneshotlpm

[FabiaGonzales]

2 hours ago, Oneshotlpm said:

This is me lol

 

The yeti went to jbs for a few days, I've used rich and jbs before. I went for the hybrid option rather than going with a second hand 1.4 set up. 

 

Its an absolute night and day difference and shows you want you can achieve with these engines. I probably could of had slightly more power if chasing numbers but I went for a sports cat to stay on the legal side. 

 

I paid £2100 and for me it's worth every penny. I have an evo 5 for my fun weekend car, I wanted more power for the yeti as a daily and it's absolutely rapid definitely suprised how quick it hits 140! 😂

 

If you own an EA211 I'd give up chasing the 1.4 idea and just go with the hybrid option. Best way to hit over 200 in my opinion! 

 

Would highly recommend JBS 

Who with and what did you go for the exhaust? Just the downpipe or a full system? Also do you have a dyno graph of yours?

 

The exhaust is holding mine back a lot, i can get to 140 but as i only have a 5 speed i'm already at 5300 rpm by that point where im losing power because of the exhaust it takes damn forever to get to 140 haha, of course with a bit of a tow from a rather confused range rover driver it gets there and beyond quicker.

[Dumi3]

Sorry, could anyone tell me what compression should each cylinder have? At operating temperature and at cold? Thank you

[Eladshaul]

@FabiaGonzaleshow much whp do you currently make? And on what octane?

[FabiaGonzales]

7 minutes ago, Eladshaul said:

@FabiaGonzaleshow much whp do you currently make? And on what octane?

181bhp on 99 octane.

 

I recently ran short and had to put a little bit of BP 95 to get by, out of curiosity i watched timing pull from knock and it was pulling 10-11 degrees of timing on 95 octane, on 99 only 3-4 degrees which is normal. It definitely felt sluggish and boost came on slower.

 

BP 97 octane had pulls of between 6-7 degrees, and didn't have the same slow boost buildup, but it lacked power in the top end, struggling to get to redline in 4th, with 99 it can reach the rev limiter (136mph @6500 rpm ish) in 4th.

[Eladshaul]

6 hours ago, FabiaGonzales said:

181bhp on 99 octane.

 

I recently ran short and had to put a little bit of BP 95 to get by, out of curiosity i watched timing pull from knock and it was pulling 10-11 degrees of timing on 95 octane, on 99 only 3-4 degrees which is normal. It definitely felt sluggish and boost came on slower.

 

BP 97 octane had pulls of between 6-7 degrees, and didn't have the same slow boost buildup, but it lacked power in the top end, struggling to get to redline in 4th, with 99 it can reach the rev limiter (136mph @6500 rpm ish) in 4th.

Ahh ok , i got my tune yesterday, running the rtmg hybrid turbo .

made 165 whp and 290 nm (from about 2200 rpm to redline ) on the dyno with 95 octane , tuner suggested switching to 99 octane saying i can probably gain 20 more hp... 

[Monkey_Dan]

2 hours ago, Eladshaul said:

Ahh ok , i got my tune yesterday, running the rtmg hybrid turbo .

made 165 whp and 290 nm (from about 2200 rpm to redline ) on the dyno with 95 octane , tuner suggested switching to 99 octane saying i can probably gain 20 more hp... 

 

So that's what, 194 bhp at the crank? What's the rest of your setup? Considering the RTMG turbo in the future.

Also what was the solution with the actuator?

Edited 6 May, 2021 by Monkey_Dan